Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clean CNG Forum
  News:
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterPM to admin  
 
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Cold weather cng problems (Read 10174 times)
gigglesnirt
Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Park City, Utah
Cold weather cng problems
12/15/7 at 14:48:07
 
Hello i just signed up here because there have been a few things i've been curious about with cng. I don't drive one currently but my brother does at the moment and lately early in the mornings he has had trouble starting the car. When the car does finally start if it does, it will usually run kind of rough, almost like its not firing on all cylinders and while reving the motor up it seems very weak. After warming up a while it seems this goes away and everything is back to normal. Btw temperatures at night here can get as low as 0 degrees F or even lower. I don't know if it might be the injectors or if it might have something to do with the fuel pressures in lower temperatures. I have though possibly taking a water heater blanket and putting it around the tank, that might work or it might do nothing. If anyone has any other ideas or reasons why the car would be doing this it would be nice.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW gigglesnirt   IP Logged
cngp71
Full Member
***
Offline

CNG Power

Posts: 118
California
Re: Cold weather cng problems
Reply #1 - 12/15/7 at 15:32:37
 
What kind of car? How many miles? Any engine lights or codes?

Injectors (new) are designed to handle at least -20F and most go even lower. This goes for all north american CNG components. Aftermarket or 3rd party conversions might not be as stringent.

Tank pressure will be lower at 0F, but not enough to affect fuel supply.  The NG must pass through at least one or two reducing regulators pulling pressure down into the 35-150psi range.  So, as long as there is at least 2.5 to 3X more fuel rail pressure pressure in the tank, it wont make a difference.  Full tanks are at 3000 or 3600 psi.

Raising the tank pressure with a water heater blanket will not help.  Of course if there is a faulty pressure or temperature sensor, maybe it would inadventently take care of that sensor problem. Also, if you were to accidently raise the tank pressure above ~4500 psi with the heater, you risk rupturing the safety valve and releasing all the ng out of the tank.  This is always better than rupturing the tank in an uncontrolled matter. Think boom.

Have you considered the ignition system?  I had cold start issues and idle issues with my crown vic when I bought it with 98K miles.  Replacing the coils and the IAC valve took care of both and made the car great to drive.
Back to top
 
 

2000 Chevy Bi-Fuel Tahoe
1999 Ford Crown Vic
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
gigglesnirt
Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Park City, Utah
Re: Cold weather cng problems
Reply #2 - 12/16/7 at 08:54:01
 
coils, wires, and spark plugs were recently changed because of this problem. The check engine light has been on and it was taken into a shop and the engine codes said all 4 cylinders were not firing Roll Eyes.
It is a 99 civic with i think about 70k miles.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW gigglesnirt   IP Logged
cngp71
Full Member
***
Offline

CNG Power

Posts: 118
California
Re: Cold weather cng problems
Reply #3 - 12/18/7 at 08:43:21
 
Have you determined that the cold temperature causes the problem?  In other words, have you parked the car in a garage, protected from the weather, and it starts OK?

How long does it take for the rough idle to go away?  The engine is running in open loop mode when first started.  After the O2 sensor warms up, it will switch to closed loop mode.  I write this to help you trouble shoot with the nowledge that two different control systems are at work. Open loop when you first start independent of temperature, and closed loop using O2 sensors to adjust the fuel/ air ratio.   The only thing that could affect which control is in play is the radiator temp and O2 temp.

This could be an injector as you had suggested. But usually an injector code will be thrown .
Back to top
 
 

2000 Chevy Bi-Fuel Tahoe
1999 Ford Crown Vic
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
gigglesnirt
Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Park City, Utah
Re: Cold weather cng problems
Reply #4 - 12/21/7 at 11:01:48
 
Sorry for the long reply, yes it is definatly the cold weather that does it, its only a couple days a month really when it gets super cold but it still happens.

The idle can take about 5 minutes of warming the car up to go away. I've also noticed when revving the motor on this rough idle it really seems like its weak.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW gigglesnirt   IP Logged
Lio
Junior Member
**
Offline

CNG Power

Posts: 87

Re: Cold weather cng problems
Reply #5 - 09/13/12 at 16:41:39
 
Piaget Debuts Jewelry In First U.S. Boutique  | It had the excitement and flare of a minimovie premiere: a fanfare of trumpets  curious crowds held back by barricades and police  lots of glistening jewels  even two of today's top young actors. But this premiere on New York City's stylish Fifth Avenue was not for a star of celluloid  rather for a star of luxury jewelry and watches.  The House of Piaget  the 122-year-old Geneva  Switzerland  company known as the "Jeweler of Watchmaking " unveiled its first North American boutique at 750 Fifth Ave. and its 10th in the world on Sept. 10. It's the company's third new store this year  reflecting an aggressive marketing and growth strategy.  The 3 750-sq.-ft. store -- Piaget's largest -- was officially opened by Yves G. Piaget  chairman of the House of Piaget; Gedalio Grinberg  chairman of North American Watch Co.  Piaget's exclusive U.S. distributor and the store's owner/operator; and Efraim Grinberg fake swiss alain silberstein watch   president of North American. Joining in the festivities were actress Kyra Sedgwick (Phenomenon) and her husband  actor Kevin Bacon (Apollo 13  A Few Good Men).  Sedgwick and Bacon weren't the only stars on view. Horological eye-catchers included Piaget's Kanthara  a $2.7 million pair of handcrafted diamond and emerald timepieces flown in from Geneva for the opening  a Piaget 18k diamond and jade watch once owned by Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and a minimarvel with a 1.35mm handwound movement that Piaget calls the world's slimmest mechanical watch.  Elegance: "Environment is crucial " says Yves Piaget. The new boutique features a facade of European blue marble. The 24-ft.-high foyer opens into the elliptical main showroom with walls of exotic Norwegian wood and alcoves filled with fresh flowers.  There are no showcases. Instead  shoulder-level display windows featuring one or two Piaget items are built into the walls. This removes the "showcase barrier" and lets customers view the jewelry up close  says Efraim Grinberg. Salespeople at strategically placed desks are ready to sit down with a customer when he or she is ready. "It is the same atmosphere we try to create around the world " says Piaget.  The second floor of the building includes space for a watchmaker for on-site service milus aurigos watch   a salon for private sessions with customers and a boardroom.  'Intensify & expand': The new store on New York's street of luxury jewelers serves two purposes  say the Grinbergs and Piaget. It's "an answer to market demand" for Piaget watches  which has grown under North American  says Piaget. And it's part of a strategy to "intensify our exposure and expand [consumer recognition] of the Piaget identity."  Piaget has a distribution network of about 900 locations in 40 countries and a small but growing chain of strategically placed stores designed to showcase and promote the Piaget image. "We need to meet our customers in distribution and retail channels " he says.And with the U.S. economy improving  "now is a good time to be here."  An important element in Piaget's market expansion is the launch of its jewelry collections in the U.S. Though best-known for exquisitely handcrafted watches in 18k or platinum  Piaget also has produced jewelry since 1989. Until now  though replica wyler geneve watches  replica patek philippe complicated watches   the jewelry has been sold only in Europe and the Far East.  Collections debuting in the new Piaget store and selected Neiman Marcus stores include Tanagra (a counterpart to Tanagra watches)  featuring interchangeable settings to enhance necklaces  rings  earrings  even cuff links; Possession  an innovative collection featuring two linked rings in constant motion with diamonds  sapphires  emeralds and rubies; and the Piaget D'Or signature collection  with equestrian-influenced designs.  Jewelry's role: The jewelry will play an important role in broadening Piaget's market to younger  affluent consumers  say Piaget and Efraim Grinberg. It's more affordable. An average Piaget watch costs $17 000 retail  says Grinberg  while the jewelry starts at $1 replica watches  000 to $1 500  "opening the Piaget world to many more consumers."  And  says Piaget  "We want to adapt our collections to the new clientele of this generation  whose [taste in jewelry] designs is different than the older generation " says Piaget. "We live in a changing world and must adapt to it."  Exposure of the Piaget name through jewelry sales will benefit watch sales also  says Efraim Grinberg. He predicts the company's watch business could double within five years.  Meanwhile  North American is investing heavily in promotion of the store in the New York City region  spending $1 million on advertising this fall alone. In addition  Piaget cosponsored the gala opening night of Carnegie Hall's 106th season on Oct. 3 and sponsored the "Great Performances" telecast of the concert on PBS.

Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
rober tclan
Newbies
*
Offline

CNG Power

Posts: 4

Re: Cold weather cng problems
Reply #6 - 06/30/13 at 23:23:15
 
Natural gas that has been cooled to a point at which becomes a liquid Natural gas is more dense as highly Compressed Cng .

http://www.americancng.com
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
AmericanThinker
Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 1
Tulsa Ok
Re: Cold weather cng problems
Reply #7 - 01/29/14 at 10:57:35
 
The only reason i know of that causes the car to have a hard time starting in the morning is most the first pressure reducer. I have a f-150 in oklahoma and it has been really hard to start due to the temps here lately. Here is the best way I can explain it. There are two antifreeze lines that run to your first pressure reducer. This allows hot water to flow through the reducer and keeps the valve from freezing up when the cng pressure is reduced. In the mornings, when the temperature is zero and the car has been off overnight, there is no warm antifreeze available to heat the valve in the reducer up. Also, inside the reducer there is a thermostat. This thermostat can get old, rusty, and lock up inside the body of the reducer. You can remove this thermostat completely without any ill affects. (At least none that I have encountered in a full range of seasons without the thermostat). The vehicle is still not easy to start in zero degree mornings but it is better than not starting at all or running like crap due to the weather. Good Luck.
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print